episode 3 - laxmi hussain on Making Art, Motherhood and Grief
Just a stone’s throw from Wembley Stadium, artist Laxmi Hussain creates expressive, minimalist line art paintings and drawings inspired by her experiences of motherhood. Known for her flowing lines, depicting curvaceous female forms in her signature shade of blue, Laxmi makes the complex simplicity of her art look easy.
We sit down together in her studio to discuss how growing up with immigrant parents of Filipina and Indian heritage led her to embark on a career in architecture. However, as Laxmi describes herself - “art isn’t just what I do, it’s who I am’”, it soon became clear to her that this mathematical approach to design wasn’t allowing her to fully express her creativity.
It wasn’t until she became a mother for the first time that Laxmi began to find her calling, using time to draw with her son to sketch out a new direction. She shares with us the highs and lows of parenthood, how the loss of her mother influences her work, how she sits with grief whilst celebrating her and the importance of letting go of perfection.
RESOURCES
Second Floor Studios - Affordable artist’s studios in Wembley Park.
The Tate Modern Turbine Hall.
Olafur Eliasson’s ‘The Weather Project’ installation, 2003.
LAXMI’S PLAYLIST
Drive and Disconnect by Nao
Too Much Too Late by Sabrina Claudio
It Is What It Is by Blood Orange
Pink + White by Frank Ocean
DJ Almas Badat - ‘Under’ playlist.
CONNECT WITH LAXMI
Join Laxmi’s mailing list to join one of her life drawing classes.
Shop Laxmi’s original artworks, including upcycled lamps.
Explore behind the scenes in Laxmi’s studio on instagram @thislaxmi.
TRANSCRIPT
Tiffany Grant-Riley [: 0:00 INTRO
In this episode, I visit artist Laxmi Hussain at her studio in Wembley Park.
Her free-flowing, minimalist line drawings, often in her signature shade of electric blue, depict the tenderness of motherhood and the natural contours of the female body in a flowing dance of negative and positive space.
She shares her experiences growing up in a loving home to immigrant parents of Filipina and Indian heritage, and how pursuing a career in architecture informed her early artworks, which she began sharing daily on Instagram as a way to explore and reclaim her identity after becoming a mother for the first time.
We discuss how she uses her art as a narrative, sharing her experiences as a mother of three, and the ways in which her work carries her forward after the loss of her mother, who was, and still is, so much of what inspires and influences Laxmi today.
[MUSIC]
I'm interior photographer Tiffany Grant-Riley, and you're listening to Curate and Display the Podcast, a short series podcast where we dig deep into the processes of Black and mixed heritage creatives, to talk about the highs and lows of their chosen craft, the spaces that inspire them, and the music that drives them to create.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [: 01:18
Lakshmi, thank you so much for having me into your inner sanctum in Wembley Park. Your studio is absolutely beautiful.
Laxmi Hussain [: 01:27
Thank you, thank you for joining me.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [: 01:29
We are looking at almost ceiling to floor windows here, lots of wall space for your beautiful artworks.
Laxmi Hussain [: 01:36
This has been by far my favourite space, the window is, it's the jewel in the space, and it's exactly what I was looking for, and it's a nice space, got four metre high ceilings. Yeah, it's like home here now.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [: 01:54
How did you find the space?
Laxmi Hussain [: 01:56
So, second floor studios are studio buildings, they have studio buildings across London, and this is the site for Wembley Park. So they've got 21 studios here, and I live not very far. So when I had Eden, I was moving studios, and I wanted something that was close to home to suit being a mum, doing the school runs, and being able to just have spaces that was accessible, and just did a Google search and they turned up, and I applied. I got on really well with the founders, and the rest is history really. This is my third studio on this site, but this one is the one that I've made home. It's got great light, which is always the first kind of pointer for me, because I'm a bit of a mole, I like to work in natural light, and it's not too bright that I get too much sun, but it's just the vibe for me, and it just fits who I am, and how I want my space to be.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [: 03:04
So, let's go back to your childhood (Laxmi laughs) Let's talk about… you were born and raised in London, your mother was Filipina, and your father is Indian. Can you tell me a bit more about what it was like growing up with immigrant parents?
Laxmi Hussain [: 03:23
Yeah, I mean my parents had a shop, and I kind of grew up with them always being quite busy, because they always worked for themselves. They both worked together, and we, so I've got a brother and a sister who are younger than me, I'm the oldest, and we were all just kind of together as a family, all the time, and I think that's quite common. Like, when I go back to the Philippines, everything's centred around the family, my dad's family, we're a bit further apart, and he has less family than my mum, so we've always been centred around mum's family, and us being the only family here in England, has always made us really sort of appreciate family life, and made us want to be close to one another. So we kind of grew up always together, always with mum, and always kind of, that just meant being naturally close to dad as well, and that's always been kind of our unit. And they were always very busy, but they were always around, and mum always had all the time in the world for us, no matter what she was doing, so it's, that's kind of been, that's kind of why I have such good memories, and I always talk about mum, and how close we were, yeah.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [: 04:47
So your parents having a shop, you must have seen quite a broad section of local community.
Laxmi Hussain [: 04:56
Yeah, I mean my parents are very, they were always very friendly people. My dad loved having a chat with all the locals. We grew up in St John's Wood, which is where the shop was, and so he knew all the locals, they knew my mum, and they made food. Food is always a talking point isn't it, no matter whether it's a sandwich, or a whole meal, and my mum, (obviously I'm biased), but she made the best sandwiches in the world, and they were always so fresh, and she always like had her own twist on things. And sometimes they could be really simple, but they were just tasty, and that's why, I guess why their customers always came to her, so it's kind of, we, yeah, we had such a broad range of people coming through the doors all the time, and we were always often sat outside, or sat at the counter top. So just naturally we knew how to communicate with all different people, and socialise with all different people.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [: 06:06
And am I right in thinking that you would draw quite a lot when you were at your parents shop, as a way to entertain yourself?
Laxmi Hussain [: 06:13
Yeah, because like, you know, we didn't have, we didn't have things like iPhones and tablets, and all of those kind of things, we…I grew up in such an, you know, in an analogue era, and I always had pens, even if it was just like… I remember you could, on the old tills, you could press a button, and then just the receipt paper would come out, so if you had nothing, you would just do a cheeky, like, roll off the paper, and tear it, yeah, and they were quite, they were quite wide in those days. Or you could just pull like, you could take a whole roll, and then you could have like a quite long drawing. So I used to do that quite a lot, sit on, then we had a really wide counter, and underneath it had these…it was a table, but underneath it kind of was like a cabinet, and so from the inside, if you're like, behind the counter, I would prop my feet on the bottom bit, because it was an open cabinet, and then it had these slots at the top, where it had all papers and stuff. And so I would like, grab all the papers, or keep my pens there, and whatever, and just sit there drawing. Yeah, I did that a lot.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [: 07:34
And then you went on to study architecture. What was it about architecture that made you decide that you wanted to go down that route - was there an element of interest in your family unit?
Laxmi Hussain [: 07:47
Absolutely, it was a product of being, one, the child of immigrants, so they always wanted me to pursue a profession. Mum and dad came here, well mum especially, came here very young, from a background where they didn't have a lot, and so, you know, you had to be resourceful, and she came here to get better opportunities for her family, and that also extended to us. So she was like, you know, the creative ventures are never really things that are potentially going to make a significant amount of money, or enough money for you to support yourself, and my dad had the same thought process, and that, you know, they wanted us to choose professions that were much more likely to earn you a significant income, to support your family and yourself.
Essentially, first, my childhood dream was to become a surgeon.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [: 08:52
Oh okay….
Laxmi Hussain [: 08:53
I mean, it's still doing things with your hands (laughs).
Tiffany Grant-Riley [: 08:55
Yeah, absolutely.
Laxmi Hussain [: 08:56
But when I got to school and started drawing more, and there was more opportunities for art, I realised how much I enjoyed that, and, you know, design technology, and all of those kinds of things, and then when I was doing my A-levels, was it A-levels? No, when you were choosing your A-levels, it was maths or art, and I absolutely loved maths. I was really good at it.
I took my maths GCSE a year early, got an A, you know, and it was one of the hardest decisions, like, up from, you know, being a child. That was one of the most difficult decisions of my then life, and I went for maths because that was what my parents had always instilled in me, was going to be something that was proved to be more successful. But it meant that I was a bit miserable, and in return, I lost interest in the subjects that I was studying, and I did really well, but I needed art back in my life, and I'd chosen all science subjects, and those were the things that I was quite good at, so architecture seemed like a good balance between what I really wanted and things that I was good at, and I hated it.
I mean, I loved the drawing, I loved everything that was creative, but anything that was constrictive, I was just like, this is not for me, and it was too practical. And I know it sounds really privileged, but art is not just something I get to do, it's who I am, and that I get to do it is incredible.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [: 10:56
I was going to say that it's interesting that you found your way to art, and your figurative style is really fluid and free, and I wondered how you got to that from architecture.
Laxmi Hussain [: 11:12
I think from a drawing aspect, which is why drawing is so prominent in my art, it's definitely from the way that I was taught about architecture, like those are the things that I took away from my course. And you know, we had drawing several times a week, if not sometimes several times a day, and when I studied architecture, we weren't using programs like CAD as heavily as they're used today. Like, I'm pretty sure now you could hand in a digital portfolio, I'm fairly certain that would be the case, and very little drawing, whereas when I was studying my degree, most of your portfolio was drawing, and if you did, I mean, that's not to say that we didn't use things like CAD, but even then you had to print it off and the drawing had to be part of the portfolio. But a lot of it was tactile and using your hands, so I think that's where it kind of still comes through in my work.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [: 12:25
So how did you find your way to the beginning of your journey as an artist? What started that?
Laxmi Hussain [: 12:34
When I left my degree, I naturally thought the next step was to then take Part Two, which is the natural progression into becoming an architect, and it was so hard as a woman to get a job. Normally you do some sort of apprenticeship or a really junior role, which would then get you to fulfill your experience requirement for part two, which is how you then progress to the next stage. And I searched, I pretty much want to say for two years, couldn't find anything, and so many people would give me an interview, and then they would decide that, or I wouldn't hear back, and in comparison, my male peers, some who didn't have the same degree, what do you call the grade? Degree grade.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [: 13:33
Yeah, the level you graduate at, yeah.
Laxmi Hussain [: 13:36
Had jobs straight away out of uni, and I can't say that that's not, you know, so it was still very sexist, I feel, at that time. And I just fell into an office job, and I was working for a female-led estate agency, and then I had another office job where I was a picture editor for a boutique hotel company and that kind of started to spark in my mind that I could find a job that was a bit more creative. And I was drawing at the time, that's when I had, when Zane was a couple of years old, so Zane's my oldest, and he was drawing all the time, and so naturally it just came back into my life where I'd put my pens down for a few years, and I just started drawing things that I wanted to draw, things that I did when I was a kid, or when I was a teenager, and Zane had kind of fuelled that.
Then Instagram came onto the scene, and my husband was…
Tiffany Grant-Riley [: 14:47
When was that, what, 2011-ish?
Laxmi Hussain [: 14:49
Yeah, so Zane was about one, and at first it was just, you know, family pictures, I loved taking photos, and my husband was like, “you'd really love this app”, you know, “you love taking photos, have a go”, and at first it really was just me taking photos, sharing photos. And I became more creative with my photos, and I still love taking photos, but when Zane and I started drawing, and I start drawing for myself, I started putting that up there too, and that really just became a journey to where it is today, and it was just, it was such a long journey. I kind of like did an archive of a lot of photos recently, and when I look back at photos from then, I'm like, I was drawing completely different things, and sometimes I'd forgot what I was drawing back then, but they all led to where I am today.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [: 15:49
Yeah, I was going to ask what the arc of your style has been like from when you started to where you are now, was there a lot of…
Laxmi Hussain [: 15:57
When I started, they were, if you saw them, they were almost architectural. They were fine line drawings of birds, of animals, but they were all linear. So I drew birds, but they were made up of lines, all clustered together in like very organised sort of patterns, and you could see, probably if you saw them, the synergy between an architectural drawing and what I was drawing. And then they progressed to more complicated forms, but then they started to, like, I started exploring birds quite a lot, and obviously birds have really intricate feather patterns, and then it became much more organic, but still about these lines.
And then I think we took a trip to the V&A, and I remember from my course that we'd been to the, you know, to all the casting rooms, and I just started drawing some of the castings. And obviously a lot of them are, they are the body, aren't they? But for me, it was just so, sort of like, they're such perfect ideals of a body, that I then was like, this is not…it wasn't realistic enough for me, it was too sort of romanticised. And whilst they are incredible castings, it didn't represent what I was seeing, who I am, and that's kind of the natural way that I moved on to. I was pregnant at the time, having another baby, and my body was something that I was deeply out of touch with, and I started drawing the body. And I'd drawn it before, like, I'd been to life drawing classes over and over, but something had changed after I had my second child, and I really wanted to reconnect with who I was, and who I was becoming, because even though I'd been through motherhood once, it's different every time. Having the second child, you feel like the first child was easy, and you know, trying to manage, they were both three and under, having to, you know, a three-year-old still needs so much, and having a newborn, and then feeling like you had no control over your life at all, and drawing was my way to tap into having something for myself.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [: 18:34
So you, would you almost say that you wouldn't have become an artist if you hadn't become a mother?
Laxmi Hussain [: 18:40
Oh yeah, I've said that, I've said that many times, yeah, absolutely.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [: 18:45
I just love that your children have been the catalyst for you to access this creative side of you that's such a big part of you.
Laxmi Hussain [: 18:54
Yeah, and also because for me, becoming a mother was the hardest, still is one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. Physically, mentally, everything else, you know, and that's not to say it's not incredibly rewarding, but it's so taxing as well, that if you can do that, why can't you do something like try and follow your dreams? And that's what it was for me, that's what it came down to. It's been really, really hard, it still is sometimes.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [: 19:32
Yeah, I can relate, I can relate a lot. I remember when I had my son, he's nearly 13 now, and I completely lost sight of who I was. You know, you have in your mind - this first child, it's going to be wonderful, I'm going to be an earth mother, and you know, my body is just going to pop back to how it was. And I remember having to go, I think I went with my mum to buy some post-baby clothes, and I just didn't know who I was dressing anymore, and you know, you suddenly find these curves that perhaps weren't there before, and a bit of stretchy skin, and some stretch marks, and it's just… there isn't enough, I don't know what you'd call it, like, support or knowledge from other mothers.
There probably is more now with Instagram and social media, where more women are talking about it and sharing their experiences, but certainly back in 2010, there really was…there was nothing.
Laxmi Hussain [: 20:48
It wasn't even that long ago, that’s so crazy.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [: 20:51
So how does your work depict the experience of motherhood?
Laxmi Hussain [: 20:57
It's funny because before I thought, and maybe that was just me scratching the surface, before I thought, I just want to share my experience. I want people to feel empowered by the fact that my experience is different to what we see in the media, different to what we've always been taught, that we don't wake up the next day looking incredible. I mean, we do look incredible, but just not in the way that we're taught, you know - we're powerful, but we're exhausted, and my body was really broken the third time around. Second time and first time I was a lot younger, so I felt like, especially after the second time, I felt so much more prepared mentally because I knew what was happening, and third time there was quite a lot, there was quite a big gap.
Whilst I was still in touch, I felt like, you know, I still felt lost, but the thing is, what I wanted to share initially was that it was, at first I was sharing things that felt much more, I guess much more appealing, because that's what we're always taught to present out into the world, the best parts of us, and I feel now it's a bit more realistic.
So whilst my work still has this element of its being aesthetically pleasing, there are elements of play more in my work now where, you know. Some of the babies are pinching a mum's nipple, which is, you know, after I'd stopped breastfeeding, I thought I wouldn't have to deal with that anymore, but, you know, they still do that. You're walking down the street and you haven't noticed that you've been walking for a minute and he's been tweaking your nipple in public, and you're like, is this just my regular, you know.
So now I'm a bit more fun about it, now I'm a bit more realistic, I'm older, I, you know, not that I tolerate less, but I don't need to be so perfect about everything, we can be more honest without worrying so much about it. Youth has that unfortunate, “who am I upsetting, are people going to like me, is this acceptable enough”, and age has that beauty of, I actually don't care, like, you know, I've tolerated so much shying myself away. But you know, I'm a good person, I still have interesting things to say, I hope, but I just want to be more honest about it, and that's what I want to share. And also I lost mum just gone five years ago, and she's massive in terms of, she taught me everything that I know about being a mother, and how I am as a mother is everything that she was, so there is a subtle envelopment of her in all of my work. Only I know that really. I'm gonna start crying, but she, it's all, it's full circle really, it's my mum. It's the wonderful women that have been there as mothers before her, after her, during, that also is very significant in my work. So some of the playful things like, you know, babies standing on a mum's soft belly are also nods to the way that we kind of, I don't feel like I walked over my mum, but in that way that sometimes we take our parents for granted. I think those are subtle nods to the beauty that is still there, but also the contradictions that motherhood has, that if mothers embrace their motherhood.
Speaker 1
I really want to become mothers and love being mothers, that's the element of mothering in my work.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
I was going to ask, your work is deeply emotional and poignant, exploring both the subject of motherhood through your own experience with your three children and the grief of losing your mother. How have you used art to express yourself and heal through that?
Laxmi Hussain [:
I wouldn't say, well, heal is a very difficult word to swallow when you've lost someone, because it's one of those things where you're like - the first person that texts you or says to you, “you will heal”, you're almost like, I wish you would just be quiet and never ever utter those words around me again, because you don't want to heal, and you never want to feel like…My mum was everything, she was so much to me, and for someone to suggest that I would ever heal from that is quite, it's offensive. And I don't mean that…
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
No, of course, of course. I guess that you can never completely heal when you lose someone…
Laxmi Hussain [:
But you do, it's a weird word, but you do heal in that today, just over five years later, I can breathe, I can go about my day to day and not be in pieces. And I know that she's there and I can hear her voice in my head if I want to, but it's not a constant ringing in my head like the first days after she died. And it's one of those things that in order to actually move on, or to just survive, you need to keep going, because actually at the epicentre of a death, your world completely stops, and the world keeps spinning.
And it's almost, it is offensive to you because you're like, why? Why is that person going about their day? Why is that person going about their day?
And why are you talking to me like everything is just going to happen and tomorrow is still going to come? Because it is. And at the moment that it happens, you can't understand, you can't, it's everything's so surreal.
But for me, the only way to get up every day were two reasons. My kids and my art. And my kids still heal me in so many ways, because one thing about having young children is you can't stop.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
Ohhhh no. It’s an ever-moving train.
Laxmi Hussain [:
Yes, and you know, you still got to get up and make breakfast, no matter how you feel. And many days it was, you know, you had to hide how deeply hurt you were, because you want them to be happy, and that's a part of motherhood, isn't it? You want them to always, you don't want them to be sad, so you try your best. And then the other part of it was art allows me to be still, and allows me to stop and forget that the world is still moving. And I can be in here painting, and I still feel like she's still here, and I'm just going to go home later. And she won't, but in that moment, I can forget that.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
I want to talk about this signature shade of blue that you use, this electric blue. What is it about this colour that draws you to it, almost like a calling card?
Laxmi Hussain [:
Yeah, I mean, that's more about grief. Mum, I mean, the short version is Mum always wore blue. And my earliest core memory is a day with her wearing blue, visiting the Philippines for the first time. And I have such vivid memories of that day, and I was only five. But my mum's blue is more like a soft sky blue, subtle, you know, like blue-worn denim jeans. That kind of softness to it, whereas mine is obviously really bold and electric.
But I always pair it back with a really neutral tone, which for me is a conversation. Like, I love the conversation between browns and my electric blue. And then all of a sudden, it doesn't become so overpowering. Its beauty shines. And there's something about – it just pulls me in. I'm obsessed with it. And I'm constantly thinking about other colours that sit well with it and those combinations. But they're always earthy or neutral or mustard browns. For me, it's all about conversations. And that's very difficult when you're an artist that works with one colour. But I've always processed less colours as opposed to many colours. Because I think it's really interesting trying to tackle one colour at a time and still paint something that has many layers, but just in a very different way.
And it's the way that my conversation unfolds, I think.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
I see from the other works behind us that you've been working in some vibrant orange against the blue lately as well. Is that a new colour?
Laxmi Hussain [:
Orange always seems to bring out the best in this colour. Orange, more tan colours. But I also realised recently that – so I went back to the Philippines in January for a short trip. And I realised that those oranges and blues are the colours outside my auntie's house. So the photos that I took, I was like – and it took me a long time to be like, huh, because I kept being drawn to those photos. I just loved them. And they're not even – you know, it's not that – there's not much information. It's just a couple of them are Eden standing outside and you can see a wall. But it's an orange wall with a blue sign at the top.
For me, it's just that reminder of home. Mum's always the feeling of home. And, yeah, I realised that that's kind of been seeping its way into my work recently.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
There is something subconscious about the colours that you've been using. They've been with you the whole time.
Laxmi Hussain [:
Absolutely. I mean, blue in my artwork is such a new thing. Like, obviously, if you think about – so my timeline obviously has been my entire life as drawing and art.
But blue only came into play like four years ago. And I've been drawing and putting my work out there before then, but not as seriously as being an artist like I am today. But four years is not a long time for it to be part of your work. And some of the work is very similar to the work four years ago. For example, I wore blue on my wedding day. My mum also did, actually. And that was entirely unplanned because I didn't know what she was going to wear on my wedding day. There are lots of occasions where I've worn blue. And normally I can list them all, but right now I can't.
But, for example, my wedding day was, what, 13 years ago. And that was my – I wore a blue sari. And, actually, when I was in high school, I wore a pair of spectacles which were blue. And at that time I was obviously going through some phase. I decided to have them ever so slightly tinted blue. So I had these blue tint spectacles with blue lenses.
It's always been a part of my life, and I don't know why.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
I think one of the reasons your work connects with so many is your approach to celebrating all kinds of women's bodies. Not just what's considered an outdated or unattainable standard. But as an artist, do you see that there's still work to be done in normalising the physical reality of motherhood and how our bodies are constantly changing?
Laxmi Hussain [:
Absolutely. Because now, especially now that we're much more open as a society – when I say open, it's still very – but we should be much more aware that there are so many different scenarios. And, you know, there might not be a mother involved. There might be just dads. Or there might be parents who are transitioning. And I think that's really – we just need to be accepting of all different scenarios. And that's really what – I know I always celebrate women's bodies, but also women's bodies are very diverse. And if we can't accept that everyone is different, when are we ever going to? And we're always going to constantly have that problem.
And then there'll be no space for anybody. I mean, the whole point of me being able to prove that I can have a career as an artist is for me to show that, one, coming from an immigrant background where that is not a popular thing to do, that it is possible.That if you want to have a dream, you should be able to pursue that.
And I know that sounds – I know I come from a place of privilege, but also there should be opportunity for people who don't have the opportunity to attain that in some way. And we should be able to give that. I think if we can't celebrate differences, when are we going to celebrate change?
And ultimately all I really wanted to do was change something.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
Do you feel a sense of responsibility as a mixed-Asian artist as well to represent your culture?
Laxmi Hussain [:
Absolutely. I come from heritages which are so diverse in creativity, but they have always created for practicality because there's never been any opportunity past that. So the makers that come from the Philippines, the craftsmanship behind it is incredible. I'm very lucky in that mum always took us back whenever she could afford to. And since I've been an adult, whenever I've been able to afford to go back home, I've gone. I've always had this yearning to go. I still do. I think the hardest thing about working for yourself is when you can't – for me, the point is trying to afford another ticket to go to the Philippines. That's all I aspire for. But because I love it there so much and I'm so grateful that when I have been there, I've had the opportunity to visit many different places.
I've seen the way that they work in pottery, for example, the way that they work in weaving. Everyday things like transforming a banana leaf into a plate or a platter. It's a much more tactile way of thinking and a less impactful way of producing on the environment. It's a much more sustainable way of living, but also it's so creative. Until recently, we haven't been able to pursue those careers. It's never been something that has been an opportunity for many people of my heritages.
So absolutely, that's what I want to shine a light on. But it would be nice if more of those people actually were people that were from those countries, as opposed to me here in England, where I've had quite a lot more opportunity than many of them ever had.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
So much of your work, specifically your style, seems to be about being in a sense of flow, especially watching you draw, it just seems to come so naturally. But do you ever lose your mojo and how do you work your way out of feeling stuck?
Laxmi Hussain [:
Of course. For me, it's often a twice yearly thing and it's usually when I stop. So it's so difficult and I think it's also compounded by winter, coming back after the Christmas break. Because one, it's dark and dingy and it's freezing in here.
No matter how many heaters you have on, it's so cold. And two, I don't get as much light. So I really struggle in those early months.
You also feel this kind of need to reset, come up with new ideas. And to be honest, that's not really what you're meant to be doing. There's no force telling you you need to start doing new things. But for some reason, we all feel like “January - new me.” It's just crazy, but I often suffer that. And then I get in here and I'm like, I don't know what to do. I just actually want to go back home and do nothing. And then I get it after the summer holidays. Especially because the kids have been so young, I've always had to take the summer holidays longer.
Being the one that's more home-based, especially over the last couple of years, I've had to tackle more of the summer holidays than my husband. Because when you work for someone else, you can't take such a long period of time off. And we don't have other family members that can take them for that length of time either.
So it's always been me. And the last couple of years, I've been very fortunate to just be like, well, I'm going to take the whole month of August and just not worry about it. And then you come back and you're still in holiday mode, aren't you?
It's that thing where you go on holiday or you spend time off being present in a different world. And for me, that's being present with the kids. But then you come back and you've got the blues.
And those are the two periods where I struggle. And usually it's just getting back on the horse. Or, you know, just drawing. Sometimes it's just coming here and having a clear out, tidying up. Those kind of things that you do perhaps when you're nesting or preparing. Allowing a moment of calm allows me to recalibrate, I guess.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
What's your relationship with perfection?
Laxmi Hussain [:
That's a funny one, isn't it? When I'm painting something, there is a lot of element of perfection that comes into it. And with drawing, it allows me to take that away.
Which is why I always incorporate drawing. Why there's always a mix of both my paintings and my drawings. Because drawings are much more instinctive for me.
And reminds me that things don't have to be perfect. Painting is a lot calmer, a lot slower. So it allows that idea of perfection to kind of seep in.
Because you're spending so much time working on specific elements. And especially because I work on a lot of positive and negative space. Really trying to enhance the negative space by the edges of the space means that I can over-labour those things sometimes. And then sometimes I step away and do a drawing. And I'm like, oh actually it's fine - I was just overthinking that. But I think we all struggle with that, don't we? Especially as creatives, we can end up in our own little bubble, thinking - this is what I need it to be? But other people are like, what are you talking about?
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
Yeah, massively. I think the biggest obstacle a lot of the time is just doing it. Just starting.
This podcast is a prime example of that. I'm now three years into this process of - “maybe I'll do it, maybe I won't. Maybe I'll do it, maybe I won't. I'm going to start it, I'm doing it! No I'm not, I'm going to cancel, I can't do it.” It's just a constant.
Because you almost…sometimes have a vision of what you want it to be in your head. But it doesn't always necessarily turn out the way that you imagined it's going to be.
Laxmi Hussain [:
Absolutely.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
Or you think - “ if I do that, it's not going to turn out how I want it to be. Therefore I'm not going to try.”
Laxmi Hussain [:
Yeah, or there's this outside pressure. I mean, we live in a world of likes.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
Oh yeah.
Laxmi Hussain [:
And as much as we like to think that we're not governed by what other people…halfway across the world that we don't even know that their opinions don't have a huge impact on us. They do. And it's not to say that I don't value my audience. I'm so grateful, I wouldn't be here without them. But at the same time, I can put so much pressure on what my audience thinks.
It can really stunt what you're trying to do. And create this overbearing element of perfectionism. Which really is not what should be happening when you're a creative.
Because essentially they came to you because your ideas are unique. Or they like the way that you think. It's really tricky. Because one, you're trying to instill your own confidence. One, in yourself and what you do. And two, you're trying to remind yourself that people liked you for whatever you did X amount of posts ago.
And they should keep liking. But it's such a tricky scenario. Because I'm like, why do we even have so much pressure on that? But at the same time, some of us wouldn't be here without it.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
Well exactly. It's a difficult balance to get right, isn't it? You can end up pigeonholing yourself as this one thing. Because that's what people respond to all the time.
When actually you're thinking, I'd like to go over and try this. But I don't know if it will land well with my “audience”. So then you don't.
But I took one of your online courses in lockdown. And I loved it. Because it really got me out of this state of, it's got to be perfect. I sat and took some self-portraits, just me and my camera. Which in itself was quite a vulnerable experience of capturing my body.
Laxmi Hussain [:
Even if it goes nowhere…
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
And I sat with these pictures and drew along with you. And I'm looking at these flowing lines and thinking, how on earth is that going to come out of this pencil? But it did. And I was just amazed that when I let go and just followed the curves and the lines with my eyes. Something came from it that I was really proud of. And I took a picture of the drawings in my studio. I think I posted it on my Instagram. I didn't say that they were my body, but they are. So you can go and have a look if you want to (laughs).
But then my sister had her baby boy February 21’. So the hospitals were still very much in that COVID lockdown. And my mother was there with her partner at home in the early stages. And they captured some photographs of her. And I used those photos to do some of the line drawings that you'd shown us in the course. That she now has those on her wall. So it's just a really beautiful experience to learn those techniques from you. And then give my sister a gift as she became a mother as well.
Laxmi Hussain [:
That's so special!
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
Tell us about an architectural space or interior that you absolutely love spending time in.
Laxmi Hussain [:
I love spending time in the Tate Modern Turbine Hall. And that's mostly from a practical point of view. Because it's grand and enclosed, but massive and great for toddlers. But usually, I've got so many good memories of us just grabbing a coffee, some cakes or whatever from something local. And just all plonking down in one spot. And the kids can run around, you don't have to be scared of them running too far. And you can actually have a chat with a friend, or your partner, or your sister. And they're occupied.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
Yes, that's the one wonderful thing about the Turbine Hall. It's just this vast open space. But it's so safe, you can see where your kids are at any one time. And you know that they're not going to wander off anywhere.
Laxmi Hussain [:
Exactly, and especially in the winter, because we have such a long winter. And then when our winter finally ends, we go into rainy season, April showers. It's also inside, there's so few spaces in London which are inside, where you can just let your kids run riot.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
I remember going there in my first year of uni. And they had this incredible installation of the sun.
Laxmi Hussain [:
Yes!
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
Do you remember it?
Laxmi Hussain [:
Yeah, I do.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
2003?
Laxmi Hussain [:
Maybe, but I do remember.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
Yes, just going and lying on the floor and looking at it.
I loved it. It's such an incredible space. And for a former power station as well...
Laxmi Hussain [:
I used to go with my best friend when she was still in London. And we all used to grab dinner. Usually it was sushi, because our kids are all so bougie like that.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
(Laughs) I love that.
Laxmi Hussain [:
Sit on the floor if you take, with takeaway sushi. Us chat, and they run up and down those stairs. So, that's what I love about it.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
You share quite a lot of the inside of your studio here online, but what's your personal style like?
Laxmi Hussain [:
At home. So this is quite funny in that, so my home is, it's historically been mum and dad's home. It was the home that they bought when I was eight or nine months old and so it's kind of had a lot of turnaround of every generation living in it from mum to my kids.
But knowing quite early on that we wanted to be quite central and this kind of the boundary of where we wanted to be, my husband and I knew that we'd never really be able to afford anything closer. So we instead invested in mum and dad's house and extended it so that we could move in and we didn't actually anticipate, you know, mum not being here and from, you know, from a family perspective that really helped with the childcare and for the future and stuff like that. But now it means that, so dad recently moved out because he's now in a care home and the first time in 13 years that my husband and I have ever lived alone.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
Wow. So it's a new chapter…
Laxmi Hussain [:
It's crazy, like at first we didn't quite realise what had happened. The house felt really empty. It's been very strange because then also since mum has died, it's been kind of curating things that belong to her, things that we don't want to get rid of. Do I box them away? And it's taken so much time to actually do that and my style in my studio is quite, it's quite clear what my style is. Whereas at home, that's not it. It's been a mishmash of everybody's sort of like, or just to kind of be the language that everyone can accept.
So it's always been really sort of style-less with elements of bits where I've kind of been like, well no, I just want that there. And it's got a lot of plants because that's what we all kind of agree on.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
Yes.
Laxmi Hussain [:
But recently we've slowly been changing things. So as recently as a couple of weeks ago, I just took down a bookshelf that we've had for like 10 years and I cleared out all the books that I'm never going to read because they don't belong to me or I wasn't interested in them. And that took a long time in itself because when you clear things that belong to ancestors or parents, it's so hard. It takes years. Still have loads of mum's stuff. I have loads of dad's stuff.
And so in their place, I put some regular Ikea cupboards, painted them blue.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
Of course.
Laxmi Hussain [:
And that is my first actual blue influence. That's mine. And I've made this space, which I feel quite proud of.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
So it sounds like you're starting fresh almost and figuring out how you want your home to work just for you with your immediate family, working out what you love and what's not for you…
Laxmi Hussain [:
Absolutely. My next project is the stairs. We had a builder that did what they needed to do, but they kind of took artistic direction on some of the things. And one of the things is that they carpeted the stairs and not just carpeted it, carpeted it in this awful brown carpet. And I said, I specifically said neutral or grey just to kind of like match the rest of the house. And when I turned up and it was brown and I was just like, that's not what I asked for.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
I lived in a rental with brown carpet, as in it was put in in the seventies and never left kind of brown carpet.
Laxmi Hussain [:
And yeah, I mean, I grew up with brown carpets over the entire house, but it was more like, you know, more like a tan sort of, this brown is just, I don't even know how it exists. It's like there is no interior stylist that would choose this particular shade and it's flecked with some sort of, I don't know, anyway. So I was thinking, and this is what I've been thinking of for a few months now, that I'm just going to rip it all up, take off all the carpet grippers, and I'm going to paint the stairs similar to my mural.
So I'm going to paint the risers blue and on the top horizontal elements, I'm going to paint lines, which then kind of go all the way down. So yeah, that's my next project.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
That sounds like an incredible project and such a vibrant piece in your home to, you know, go up and down the stairs. It sounds like such a nice mood-boosting experience.
Laxmi Hussain [:
Yeah, so you're going to open my front door and see my stairs. That's my next project.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
I love that.
Laxmi Hussain [:
Now I have to do it because now it's going to be, now I've said it, and it's on a podcast! (Laughs)
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
Are you trying anything new at the moment that takes you outside of what's familiar for you?
Laxmi Hussain [:
Yes. So I turn 40 in a few months.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
Same!
Laxmi Hussain [:
Do you?
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
Yeah, September.
Laxmi Hussain [:
September?! September when?
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
24th.
Laxmi Hussain [:
I'm the 10th.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
Oh, amazing.
Laxmi Hussain [:
Big 40 bash!
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
I know…
Laxmi Hussain [:
Um, so yeah, so I, originally I wanted to have, well, I met, I bumped into my, one of my oldest high school best mates. She was like, what are you doing for your birthday then? I was like, I really don't know.
And she knows that I'm not someone that has these massive parties. And she was like, why don't you do an exhibition? And I was like, okay, actually, that's quite a good idea. So then obviously I then went back to my other sounding board, who's my sister. And she was like, well, you do all this work outwardly supporting other women, an exhibition should perhaps be about you. And it's a milestone birthday.
That's even more of a reason for it to be about you. So I've been working on a self-portrait, which is Eden on my shoulders. And that's one of those things where you were talking about, it's taken years for this podcast to, I've had this idea in my head for nearly a year. And I've wanted to paint this scenario. And there have been many opportunities where I could have submitted this idea if it were ready to, you know, these kind of call for artists and like it fits a brief, many briefs that have come and gone, but I've never done it. And I was just like, I've got to do it.
But even now, every time I get here, I'm like, I don't have enough time. I'm not going to start it now. Or so it's going to be finished very soon.
I'm going to make that's my priority at the moment. And that's kind of how it ends is going to be how it governs what the other pieces will be. But I kind of have an idea what the other pieces will be.
I found a picture when I was little of me standing between my mum's legs and she's sitting on a sofa. And that's like the end of my first birthday. And she's holding a plate of food just above so I can't reach. And I'm like, that's just like, quintessentially that is motherhood.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
That sums up your experience.
Laxmi Hussain [:
Yeah, exactly. You know, always holding stuff slightly away from the kid or the baby. And it's the same things that I work on, but a bit more personal, a bit more realist, you know, more real lived experiences.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
Do you have a piece of advice or something that you've learned to help listeners who are exploring their own creative path?
Laxmi Hussain [:
Yeah, I think one, you just got to do and you've got to kind of be uninhibited about it. When I think about being an artist, I always think about how my kids create in that if I give them a pen and paper, they'll just do whatever they want. There's no sort of concept that it's got to go up on the wall.
There's no apprehension about how big they have to go, you know, it can go off the paper. But there is no, there are no rules. And you kind of have to start like that when you want to do something that you've been dreaming about.
And it might not go anywhere for ages. And this journey has taken me years and years and years. I've not been one of those artists that had a significant viral sort of posts that overnight I got 100,000 followers, you know, it's never been like that for me.
And I'm pretty sure it's not like that for many artists. You might have a year where you have, you know, 5000 followers in a year, you might have a year we have five. Social media is important and not important because we want it to be but that's where everyone is.
But also at the same time, it doesn't have to be the be all and end all, it doesn't govern who you are, what your voice is. I think we need to be kind to each other. Because if you are people will see that in you and they want to help you.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
That's some really good advice. Thank you for that. Music is a huge part of my own creative process. And I'm always intrigued to know what other people are listening to. So in addition to the podcast, I'm putting together a playlist to share at the end of the season. What four essential tracks would you put on a mixtape to motivate you when you're creating in your studio?
Laxmi Hussain [:
I would put Nao, Drive and Disconnect. My kids really like that song as well. Sabrina Claudio, ‘Too Much Too Late’. I love Blood Orange. And my favourite song is ‘It Is What It Is’. And then Frank Ocean, ‘Pink and White’. I think we all need a bit of that in our lives.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
Oh yeah. Absolutely love that one.
Laxmi Hussain [:
But also I've got a really good friend who's a DJ, her name is Almas. And she has a playlist. She's on Spotify. And I'm listening to her playlist, which is called Under. But I really loved her playlist, which was Affirm. If you just look for Almas Badat, B-A-D-A-T, on Spotify, you'll find her playlist.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
Excellent. I'll include that in the show notes as well so that you can find it after you finish listening.
Well, Lakshmi, thank you so much for all of your time.
Laxmi Hussain [:
It's been a pleasure.
Tiffany Grant-Riley [:
It's been wonderful just chatting to you today.
And I look forward to your exhibition!
Laxmi Hussain [:
You'll be first on the list. Pressure… (laughs)
Tiffany Grant-Riley [: OUTRO
This episode is dedicated to Laxmi's parents, Tessie and Chandula.
You can visit Lakshmi's Landscapes of Women mural at Wembley Park and find upcoming workshops and prints online at thislakshmi.com. And to see what she's up to in her studio, follow her on Instagram @ thislakshmi.
